Jason Furman, an economist who was an adviser to President Barack Obama, believes that trade is an unmitigated good — a rarely heard opinion on the right or the left these days. In this episode of “The Opinions,” David Leonhardt, the director of the Times editorial board, pushes Furman on the downsides of trade and asks him to explain its benefits — for both Americans and the rest of the world.
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Below is a transcript of an episode of “The Opinions.” We recommend listening to it in its original form for the full effect. You can do so using the player above or on the NYT Audio App, Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube, iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.
The transcript has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
David Leonhardt: I am David Leonhardt, the director of the New York Times editorial board. I’ve been reporting on trade in recent months to figure out how my colleagues and I should editorialize about President Trump’s tariffs.
It’s quite clear to us that Trump’s tariffs are a bad idea. It’s less clear what an ideal trade policy would look like. For a long time, economists have argued that trade is good and that the country should want more and more of it. The evidence isn’t so clear. As trade has increased in recent decades, economic inequality has soared, and a lot of once-thriving communities have really struggled. Trump and Vice President JD Vance claim that their tariffs will turn those communities around.
Audio clip of JD Vance: “For 40 years, we’ve had an economy that rewards people who ship American jobs overseas and raises taxes on American workers, and we’re flipping that on its head. We’re going to cut taxes for American workers and for American companies that build here. We’re going to make it harder to ship American jobs overseas.”
